In the Meantime...

Okay guise. SO. Here's a summary of the things that have happened with Archie, Tam, Eris-Ell, and Eris-Aya between the times of the Battle for Crenel and the events taking place in Nothing Held Back. Which is basically a few weeks ish. This is going to be very informal because I don't know how else to do it.

Basically: Eris-Ell and Eris-Aya have been in the care of Archelaus and Tam ever since the Battle. They have also interacted with other Alteriians and other people of the Somnis empire, so they have begun to experience the favoritism that occurs between them. Ell is the child of the Lyikos, and so naturally people seem to favor her and spoil her. While hardly any open hatred of Aya has been shown, most of her interactions with people have contained an undertone of prejudice that Aya is acutely aware of.

In terms of the characters themselves, Ell has developed to be far more physically strong that Aya, and has adapted to using an implant much better. Aya, on the other hand, has developed a much higher mental presence and awareness that her sister, who has shockingly little mental or psychic ability for one of her race. Aya tends to be quieter and less outspoken than Ell, who is bossy towards Aya and is constantly blaming her for the things that she does. And people believe her. Tam often seems to be the only one with an overwhelmingly positive disposition towards Aya, but her love of her daughters is entirely equal with no discrimination. But even Archie has demonstrated a preference for Ell, since Aya is the child of the thing that tormented Tam for so long.

As the two grow and mature, Aya develops a stubborn streak that she doesn't show outwardly. She seems to take all of the brutality that her sister directs her way, but it starts to build up inside her--a hatred of all the people who show a preference for her sister, resentfulness towards most people, and the desire to find someone who will treat her like everyone else, even if the way they treat everyone else isn't that great either. She wants to feel like something other than an outcast.

And so a plan slowly forms in her mind.

Aya likes Verax, or she likes the idea of him. She likes the stories that Tam tells her about the man, how he can fight for both good and evil, how no one really understands him but how despite everything he did, Tam still owed him almost everything. And Aya felt... a connection with Verax, with a man she'd never met, with a fellow outcast who refused to be what everyone expected of him. She heard of his deeds, of how he destroyed planets but gave the people the chance to evacuate. How he knew his destiny but in a way he was still fighting it. Aya was inspired by him, and so her plan came into form.

She was going to run away, and she was going to find Verax, and she was going to try and find a place where she would be accepted for who she was instead of discriminated against for things that happened before she was even born. Yes, that was what she'd do. She would find Verax one day, and join up with him, and she would finally find a place to belong, even if it was with a madman.

But it was just a dream, just a fantasy. Until the day when Aya heard the hatred, the real hatred, not veiled by false love of the two sisters. Maybe it had been the quiet conversation between two Alteriians about how they knew she was only going to be trouble, and that maybe, just maybe... someone should have done the service of killing her before she had been given the chance to live.

And it was this shock that made her fulfill that fantasy. They wanted her dead. They thought she should have been killed. Was her life really worth so little? And so she ran. She used her father's authorization codes to quietly steal a small, unarmed transport, and she left. She didn't write a note for her parents. Didn't say goodbye. The only thing she felt guilty for was leaving her mother. She didn't know what effect her leaving would have on Tam, only knew that this was what she had to do.

So as she navigated to the 10th dimension, she wondered hopelessly if she would ever be wanted. Her mind was blank, and the fun of the fantasy of running away to meet Verax had run out. What was to come was out of her control, and she hardly even cared about the danger of what she was doing.

Onward, ever onward, with no fear and no remorse.

Maybe she was destined to be like Verax after all.

No non nonononono

So much wrongness!
That is the opposite of the Alteriian people, and neither description of either child accurately represents a Kazequi!

Can't say for sure the effects of being the darker would have on Aya, but her going to Verax seems to strain all edges of credibility.
At least, of my vision of every character.

In my novel, I cannot see a realisitic way to represent those events, while being true to the theme, setting, and everything else-that-is-novel.

We need to pick a different story line incentive.

AND THERE IS NO WAY IN FROZEN HELL ARCHIE WOULD PREFER ONE OVER THE OTHER. PERIOD.

THIS IS LITERARY SUICIDE!!!!

(not to be harsh or anything. If you really want, you can have Verax kidnap her.)

I'm not changing it John, I'm sorry. There are very good reasons for this. What this was meant to be was more of a "How Things Happened From Eris-Aya's Point of View." Her heightened mental awareness allowed her to pick up on and exaggerate even the slightest undertones of thought. I'm not saying that Archie actually felt those things necessarily, but it is beyond reasonable doubt that those thoughts would not have crossed his mind at some point. Aya is basically a teenager, and so everything seems more extreme than it is to her. Please don't flip your lid about stuff like this; I would prefer you just ask about it...

Also, there are bad people. This goes for Kazesqui as well. Ell is kind of a bitter, controlling person and this will be developed more in her personality later...

In any case. AYA IS PROBABLY MOSTLY MAKING THIS UP. I say that in caps for emphasis. The conversation between the two Alteriians may or may not have really happened. She is inclined to make things seem worse for her, and that is something that most people in the world are guilty of. So... I'm not changing the plot, and I'm not changing how things played out.

Okay. For clarification, what really happened was that Aya may have overheard Alteriians talking about her, but only caught a few words and panicked because of the already exaggerated circumstances that had taken root in her mind.

As for neither children being anything like the Kazesqui, everyone has different personalities. How can we judge what all of them should be like? Also, the two children are only HALF kazesqui. The other halves of them are the parasites. Including pieces of the parasites' "personalities." We already know from interactions between Eris-Tam and Emerik's Lyikos that the Lyikos is out to smother all darkness, and will do cruel and awful things to complete that goal. Aya is a threat, to the Lyikos, because of her dark nature. I am playing this off as the fact that the light parasite is more strongly represented in Ell than the dark is in Aya. Aya is a paranoid person; she the way she saw the events is most certainly skewed, so many of the things that don't have to do with Ell directly may or may not have happened exactly as Aya would claim they did.

Does that make sense?

My lid did not flip, lol, that's just the way I'm typing for effect.

I'm not angry or anything.

Yes, Aya would be making it up, but to infer that Archelaus would prefer the less intelligent bully over the darker more thoughtful child would be an intense misrepresentation of Archelaus as a person.
He does not value light, unless light has value.

To have Archelaus be portrayed that way is a misrepresentation of his character, and I would not condone having Aya run away from the Alteriians because she was not loved, or because they were cruel, because the Alteriians are not those things.

The Alteriians are a unified people, and they would not see Aya as something intrinsically worse than the other, but something different and special to be treasured, just as any Kazequi is in Alteriian culture.

Obviously there would be people with different opinions, but Alteriians can read each other's minds, emotions, and thoughts. Aya would know that there was no deceit, malice, or hate towards her, and if Eylla had deciet or malice toward Aya, then everyone else would know, and the situation would be resolved.

Also, are you saying that they are half Alteriian/Kazequi, half Kazequi/lyikos/parasite, or what, because you can't have them be half and half and half. That doesn't seem to work?

Not to mention both of them are still children. This is literally like what, a week later? They can't be teenagers yet, unless some passage of time occurred that I am unaware of.

What the parasite's influence on Aya is, is yet to be known, but if she is centered that way because of the parasite, then wouldn't the lyikos have the same effect on the other child, positively, making her not a bully?

I do not agree with this plot action, and Implore you to change it, even if it is fun to write.

Also, I don't know what you guys did with the Lyikos situation, because I didn't read most of it, but the Light isn't just light.
It is all the things good, just, and righteous in the world.

The Lyikos would not do cruel evil things to crush darkness, because then the lyikos would not be light.

Okay.

A. Read: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

B. Ell is VERY SMART. She is not stupid. She is extremely intelligent.

C. ARCHIE'S SUPPOSED FEELINGS TOWARDS AYA ARE MADE UP.

D. Um okay so what about the fact that she's a very paranoid person? That's just how she is. Simple.

E. Actually no. Something I have not yet developed in plot about Ell is that though she cannot reach into the minds of others, she is EXTREMELY skilled at controlling her own mind, and blocking certain things from being noticed.

F. No. The kazesqui are ASEXUAL. It is a direct reproduction, and there is no such thing as a kazesqui/alteriian mix. The children are simply HALF kazesqui and HALF respective parasites.

G. The effects of the two parasites on the children are still developing. Some traits are represented while others are not. Ell can still be a bully. To Aya.

H. The Lyikos is not light. The Lyikos is the predator of the Thel-ghan'che, nothing more. It simply REPRESENTED light in this circumstance. So actually yes.

Instead of following that link which you probably can't go to, go to "Races," then "On Ascension, Maturity, and the Tey'ira Kannen."

I read that.

A. She is intelligent. That doesn't stop the strongest Alteriians in the universe from being able to understand her and empathize, and that doesn't make her smarter than the several billions of Alteriians on the Shadowed Planet. She is a child/teenager, and cannot compete with Alteriians who have several thousand years of experience on her, even if she could deflect some of them, certainly not with the cream of the crop that would be around her.

B. Archie's feelings are made up, but that doesn't mean you can flip flop on your character whenever you want to. Sure, I could make up some kind of explanation as to why he might not like Ell, but that would not be staying true to his character.
The same way you would have felt affronted if Harry Potter suddenly decided to be best pals with Malfoy halfway through the fourth book. It isn't right.

Not only that, but Archie is my character, and you don't get to deicde what he feels or how he treats other characters, I do. You can have Ell feel however she would like to, even if I don't agree that it is a good plot descicion, but you cannot base those feelings off of Archelaus' actions and those of the Alteriian people.
You don't get to decide who they are, even as I don't get to decide who the Kazequi are.

C. She's paranoid, but that is not sufficient explanation for her coming to hate everything in the whole world of the Alteriians, and go to the universe's biggest super villain looking for comfort.

D. Perhaps Ell cannot, but every Alteriian can, and Alteriians are very good at it. She is living on a planet of Alteriians, and those Alteriians are perfectly capable of projecting their feelings to someone. She isn't hanging around your everyday Alteriians. They would know she was hiding from them. Especially when she's hanging around the strongest users of the Rolxan in the whole universe, including Archelaus, who happens to be the High Druid, who passed the Mok'.

E. Yes, the Kazequi are asexual, but it still requires a partner. I had imagined something like the Blue people from Mass Effect, possessing certain traits from the mother, being wholly blue people, even as their genetic DNA or whatever is randomized by the father.

F. I thought that Archelaus was the father, when I thought that you called him the father... I suppose I'm just flat out wrong then, the parasite and lyikos had an impact on the children, not Archelaus.

G. That makes sense, but there isn't a good situation for which Ell can be a bully without somebody noticing and stopping it. If you would like, we could move Ell and Aya from staying on the Alteriian homeworld to staying somewhere else.

H. When I originally wrote the Predator for the Parasite, it was a being of light. If you're just calling it a predator, then please don't make Ell or Aya any color at all, but heartless grey, because neither the parasite or lyikos represented either "good" or "evil". Representing Light does not make sense.

I. If Ell develops romantic feelings for Verax, then either Verax or Ell is dying, or the third option is that I will have Archelaus commit suicide, because that is not somewhere I'm willing to tag along with.

J. I still don't quite see how Eris-Tam connected with the largest mass-murder madman in the universe, the number one enemy of every living thing in the universe, failed conqueror and destroyed of everything that anyone holds dear. But even if she did, why would her child? Especially when she could see the devastation and destruction that he caused, the pain he inflicted, etc...

Okay, now you're just pissing me off.

I think you just like arguing about shit just for the sake of arguing.

There is no reason for this.

Everything I did is perfectly well explained either in plot, in my explanations, or in both.

You don't have to agree with the things my characters do, and like I said earlier- if you misrepresent my characters in this book and I don't approve of it, I WILL TAKE YOU TO COURT if you try to get it published. End of story.

I don't feel like arguing with you anymore. I'm tired. I'm tired of you pitching a bitch about every single thing I do in this.

Honestly I feel like doing one of two things right now: either kicking you out, or quitting permanently. But since I have restraint and would hope that you will see reason and stop being an argumentative asshole about this, I won't. I'm sorry it had to get to this point, but...

You don't listen. And I'm fucking tired of it.

I think it is important.

I like the story that you wrote, I like the meaning. I don't have to understand it, I don't need to agree, I don't even have to really remotely like it. I also agree that there is no reason for this. When people are tired, the get angry a lot faster, but I'm not bitching, and I;m not arguing for the sake of arguing. I have better things to do.

I think it is important. Which is why I brought it up. Which is why we are communicating about it, so that I don't feel left in the dark, and your elaborations helped a lot, thank you.

I don't complain about everything you do, I try to make everything as good as it possibly can be. If I bring up more halt signs then everyone else, it isn't because they don't bring up any at all, I am not complaining, I want to understand, and I want the story to make as much sense as it possibly can to me, and hopefully to as many other people as possible, with or without your personal approval.

I value your individuality as writer, and a person, to make all these decisions, I had just thought that two heads were better than one.

Were you to say "John I think you should reconsider doing this" with one of my characters, I would welcome that with open arms.
I apologize for not communicating that effectively, my last intention would be to piss you off, that gains no one anything whatsoever.

Please do not feel the need to kick me out of the dimensional chess, it is something that I enjoy doing, I like you as a person and your writing style, I enjoy the creativity, imagery, and expressiveness of every writer who has posted in Dimensional Chess, and I REALLY like the story line, my own problems aside.

And I listen a lot more than people think I do.

Writing a book is not worth losing a friend. (if RPs can be considered friendships)

Well, I agree completely.

But I am certain that you are completely aware of how everything you have said in this conversation up until know can be easily and blatantly seen as antagonistic, argumentative, and pointless. Every answer I provided for why a certain thing was so you came back to with the same exact argument that you started with. You seem to be ignoring certain points of original roleplay just like you accuse us of doing.

You also seem to think (based on purely what you said) that you should have input on every single fact that we establish for our races--Kazesqui reproduction, how the twins are structured, etc. You've also assumed things about plot that were, firstly, never stated or implied and secondly, explicitly denied in the previous plot. (I am referring to the idea that there would ever be romantic interest between Aya and Verax.)

You also seem to ignore the fact that my characters are my characters, and if I want them to feel a certain way I obviously have a certain, specific, sensible explanation for it. If you say that my characters are flip flopping and changing personalities constantly, you are basically saying that I don't know how to keep a consistent character and that I'm too stupid to have already planned completely reasonable reasons for their emotions.

Also, assuming that everyone is automatically able to break into Ell's mind and discover that she's a bully to Aya is basically overpowering your characters with no thought to how strong my characters might be. This is a direct attempt at stopping plot motion and flow and is nothing but disruptive.

You also seem to ignore many plot points that are VERY CLEARLY stated, and then make judgments and assumptions simply because you didn't read it. This means you basically don't know what you're talking about.

So I'm sure you can understand why I feel the way I do, which is a bit more than quite unhappy. I can still be reasonable, as shown in my earlier posts on this thread, but you seem to think that I haven't put any thought into my plots and that actually makes me quite angry. You (through what you say) often come across as pretentious--seeming to think that your opinions on the subject are all that matter.

I know you put thought into your plots, which is one reason of many why I usually like them so much.

(Actually, I would agree that Ell should make her way to Verax. The only thing I thought you might consider chancing were the motivations. It was not a deliberate attempt to stop the plot, and I am aware that the action was inspired partially by a need for something to happen in the plot. I am not unintelligent. Oh, and for that last part there, you said "not yet" so I couldn't guess at what you meant. Perhaps I misread.)

All arguments themselves aside:

I appreciate you giving me extra (a lot extra) lee-way, because generally simply don't have enough hours in the day to accomplish everything I would like to. I get home from debate, or choir, or youthgroup, or sports, or whatever, late at night and reading through a couple dozen pages of character interaction that have 95% nothing to do with mine whatsoever is not very palatable to me. I apologize for sounding idiotic, simply because I did not know that we had moved from point A to B, before we moved from B to C.
A to C just sounded strange, because I was still thinking A.

Also, I am a big fan of conflict. It's the way my family operates, iron sharpens iron. When someone says something, we have to be able to defend ourselves against verbal abuse, lol. I don't see conflict as a bad thing, but as a good thing. most people do not, especially do not. People get frustrated and angry if they aren't "heard" in five or ten minutes, but I can discuss the same subject with one of my friends for three or four hours, and still have more to say.
It's just the way I operate, and I am working on improving that as well.

I understand your arguments, I was not trying to repeat myself, but to make myself more clear. I had felt that you had not answered what I had brought up.
But I am listening to what you're saying. I'm not ignoring you.

From my perspective, I was having fun with the "nooooooooooo" and "literary suicide" deal, I was literally laughing when I wrote that, and was not angry or trying to make fun of you, or trying to be a total jerk, or anything negative whatsoever. It is my failure to not express accurately enough what I am feeling. In no way would I ever intend to say or imply that your thoughts are not important, that your ideas aren't thought out and sensible, or that your points didn't make sense.

Because they are, you are, and they also do.
I apologize I make/made you angry, and I will try not to again.

If you would like, I can keep all commentary regarding what I think should happen to myself, and focus solely on my own stories.

That's what everybody wanted in the first place.

Honestly, I appreciate constructive feedback. I even understand all of the points you just made. But I still feel it necessary to say that: if you want to discuss a plot, any questions you might have, or things that you find to be inconsistent, try to take less the approach of attacking the person, which is certainly what it seemed like to me, and more the approach of simply having a civilized conversation. If something doesn't make sense to you, just ask about it. Don't tell the person that what they've done doesn't make any sense and that they need to change it. Assume that the other person understands your points the first time you make them unless they state otherwise, and consider what they have to say before you respond again.

This is my advice. You don't have to follow it, but I am saying that if you had taken those approaches rather than the one you did, perhaps this conversation would not have devolved as it did. I will also say that if this happens again, I will be seriously posing to the group the question of keeping you as a member of this roleplay.

If it becomes an issue again, I'll probably quit myself.

Fair enough.

I'd like to start today in a better way. If you have any questions still remaining about possible plot discrepancies, ask and I will certainly explain the things that I came up with for it and reasons why I think it works.

Sorry about last night. We both made mistakes, and I'd like for those mistakes to be recognized but not held against us.

Okay? (:

Agreed, and agreed. =)

(I don't think I have any more questions.)
Really, I like the idea of Ell going to Verax. Excellent plot decision in my opinion, just perhaps not for those motivations.

Whatever the case, I certainly don't want to argue about it.

Shall we delete this entire conversation?